Defending the Drivers: Inside 35 Years of Legal Support with Driver’s Legal Plan

In this episode of NGT Talks, host Lindsey Trent engages with Brad Klepper and Marilyn Surber  from Driver's Legal Plan, who share insights into their 35-year history as a national law firm dedicated to defending CDL drivers and motor carriers. The discussion covers the company's affordable legal services, wherein drivers pay a flat fee of $100 per case for traffic violations, with a 95% success rate without requiring their presence in court. They highlight the importance of maintaining a clean motor vehicle record (MVR) for employability and clarify common legal misconceptions, such as the mistaken belief that paying a ticket erases it from one’s record. The conversation also emphasizes Driver's Legal Plan's commitment to driver education by collaborating with trucking schools and sponsoring young leadership programs. For drivers and carriers interested in legal assistance, resources are available through their website or by phone.

https://www.driverslegalplan.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/marilyn-surber/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/brad-klepper-20ba5322/

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Transcript

Before we hit the road on today's discussion, I want to take a moment to express our heartfelt gratitude to some of our sponsors. So thank you to Next Gen trucking Partners. And those are Benny Keith Foods, Beyond Trucks, Christensen Transportation, Clean Harbors, Dot Transportation, Drivers Legal Plan, and Fastenal. Thank you for your support. Without you, what we do couldn't be possible. Hey, this is Lindsay Trent with NGT Talks. And I am super excited, as always, to have two of my favorite people, literally favorite people in the industry. Brad Klepper and Marilyn Surber, both with Driver Legal's Plan. Thank you so much for being on the show today. 

Well, thanks for having us. 

Yeah, thanks for having us, Lindsey. I know you're one of my favorite people as well, so I was excited whenever you asked if we would do this. 

Absolutely. 

Thank you. And one of the first questions I always ask everybody is, how did you get into the trucking industry? 

Brad, you go first. 

Well, as you may know, my career in the NBA didn't quite pan out, so I needed to find something else to do. No, seriously. Growing up, one of our family's best friends owned a trucking company. I mean, literally, we did everything with these people. And as I watched Larry, it was Hill Trucking company grow up and get to know his drivers and interact with the drivers. I just really like the quality of people that were associated with the industry. Turns out my father ended up being a prosecutor in the early 90s in Oklahoma, and that was right about the time that the advent of the CDL came out, and he was dealing with a lot of truck drivers and recognized that there wasn't really anybody setting aside their legal practice to take care of trucking truck drivers. 

So that's what he started Driver's Legal plan back in 1991. And I came over and joined him after I got out of law school and practiced law for a little bit. And to be honest, I've done a couple of different things in my life in different industries, and there's not an industry I would rather be in than this. It is the finest human beings and that you'll ever meet. Everybody's great. 

I agree, Brad. That's what attracted me to the industry as well. It's just people are down to earth, and it's just a pleasure to be with everybody in the trucking industry. Just great people. And next year, you all are celebrating your 35th anniversary. Anniversary in business. That's amazing. 

Yeah, we're very excited about that. 

Absolutely. You should be. That's huge. Marilyn, how did you get into the industry? 

Well, I didn't know what I was getting into, but I, I just applied for a job in the Tulsa world. So in 2008, at the end of newspaper advertisements, I applied blindly to a job at a recruiting job at Melton Truck Lines. And I went in and interviewed with Angie Buchanan, who's, she's their VP of operations now. And she's like, yeah, can you make 100 phone calls to truck drivers every day and try to talk to them about, you know, driving a truck and what's role play? And I was like, yeah, I can do that. And so I think like two days later I started and I just fell in love with drivers and fell in love with the industry and the rest is, it's history. But I just kind of, it was blind luck and I, I can't imagine. 

I've never really worked in anything else. I was 25 whenever I started that job and I can't really imagine working in any other industry. Just what you guys said, I think I didn't know that I was getting into the best industry that there was, but I, I am in the best industry. I can't imagine, you know, working anywhere else. 

Well, you all both have a passion for serving the industry, serving drivers. Tell me about what you all do at Driver's Legal Plan. 

Sure. The nickel version of what we do is we are a national law firm. Like I said, were founded in 1991 and the only thing in the whole wide world we do is to spend CDL drivers and motor carriers on anything that happens to them over the road. So that's basically think of citations, inspections. That is what we do. The way that it works is drivers pay us a very small retainer in the event they get a ticket. We represent them for a flat fee of 100 bucks, beginning to end. No limitations, no exclusions on hours on any moving or non moving violation. That's 95% of our practice right there. In addition, we defend the drivers in the event that they get an inspection. We'll do a DataQ challenge just included as part of our basic service. 

So at the end of the day, we want to give the drivers an opportunity to defend themselves and to protect their mvr, maintain their employability. Always somebody who knows the industry, knows trucking laws, know the center relation between the states and gives them the best service at a economical price. 

Yeah, and so I'm a driver and I don't have any protection like this in place. What would you suggest I do to be able to get something like this in place so that I am protected. 

Well, sure. Even if you're not a member of driver's legal plan, you can reach out to us and we'll still be able to defend you. We just won't do it at the be able to do it at discounted rate. When we started the company Back in 1991, we created our own custom software. So I've got a record of every court in the country we've ever been in. So I've got, you know, 400,000 cases, and if you call me Lindsay and say, hey, I got, you know, another speeding ticket in Alamogordo, New Mexico, I can pull that up and say, great. I've been to Alamogordo 600 times. 

Here's how many cases I have open, and here's the breakdown of all the other cases that we've had there so that we're able to kind of tell you what to expect, manage your expectations, know how things are going to go with that court, because, you know, that's important. A driver needs to know. You want to know. Everybody wants to know what's likely to happen. If it's a good court, we'll tell you that. If it's a court that's tough to deal with, we tell you that as well. And, you know, if you call me with a $10 parking ticket in California and want me to defend you, I'm going to say, save your money. That $10 parking ticket's never going to show up. Just pay the parking ticket, move on down the road. 

We want to be able to support the drivers and help them maintain their jobs. And, you know, we're not here to take advantage of anybody. We want to help the drivers and help the industry. We're big believers in the industry, and we're incredibly active in it and supportive of it. 

You are very supportive of the industry. I know with all of both of your involvement in associations and tons of things that you do to not just promote your business and what you do, but really to support the industry. And at the end of the day, it's all about service and being a product and a service that's actually beneficial to companies and drivers out there, and that. And that really is what you do, a service to drivers to protect them. Marilyn, you're fairly new to driver's legal plan in terms of your employment. You've known them forever. What made you want to go and work for driver's legal plan, and why do you believe in the service? 

Yeah, so you mentioned. I'd known them forever. So I was their client at Melton Truck Lines. And so I got to see firsthand, you know, how what that looks like in a trucking company, you know, what that means to drivers when they get tickets and when they have a service that they can call that protects them and handles those things for them, how it improves the lives of safety managers and safety directors. When we're not having to chase that stuff down, we have somebody that's helping our driver that we can trust. And so I was able to get to know Brad and Jim and driver's legal plan, their service, you know, through my tenure at Melton Truck Lines. And then when I went to work at 10 street, we brought them on at part as partners. 

And so drivers can actually sign up for driver's legal plan, you know, right through the Driver Pulse app directly. So if your carry. If your company does not offer driver's legal plan, that's okay. You probably have Driver Pulse on your phone. Go to Driver Pulse, and you can sign up directly right there. So I. We recognized it as something that needed to be brought, you know, that we wanted drivers to have access to because it is one ticket. You know, drivers, depending on what your background is, all of them can be one violation away from losing their job, you know, and losing their livelihood. And so nothing is really more important to me in this industry, really, than the drivers. That's why we're all here, is to make this. 

Make it safe for drivers, make the job better for drivers, and, you know, the industry better for drivers. And I think that's really what drew me to driver's legal plan is it is about the driver and protecting the driver and helping the company protect the driver, you know, so helping the company when they haven't done something wrong, you know, being able to, you know, defend the company and helping them as well, so that they can afford to keep drivers, you know, up and, you know, running up and down the road, you know, safely and all of those things. And so that's really what drew me and, you know, and the. 

The opportunity to be able to be with a company that does believe in the industry as much as I do and to be able to continue to support the industry and the things that, you know, I, Marilyn Serber, think are important, you know, for the industry, but are also important to drivers. 

And from our perspective, I mean, we recognized all of that in Maryland, how passionate she was about the industry, how she's out there. I mean, I think I travel and then I look at her, and I just Laugh. 

Yeah. 

She's an absolute home run in the industry. She's passionate about it. She's so incredibly active in Women in Motion and Women in trucking and all the boards. So we couldn't have a better ambassador for us out there than. Than Maryland. So don't tell her I said that. 

That is the truth. But, Brad, one thing that I've always been impressed by you is just how intelligent you are. How many states have you officially passed the bar in now? 

Oh, we are licensed to the majority of them. I think I'm at 16. My son's just what the world needs. Another lawyer recently graduated. I think he's up to six. 

All right. 

Father is also licensed and, oh, I can't remember states how many he's licensed at, but a whole bunch. A whole lot of continuing education. 

That is incredible to me. People have a hard time passing the bar once, let alone in multiple states is incredible. And I'm so happy that your son is getting into the business now because we need more good lawyers like you all. 

We need more young people, that's for sure. 

Yes, absolutely. It's a legacy right there. So what are some of the most common issues, legal issues facing truckers today? What. What are you all defending mostly? 

Oh, that's a great question. I mean, you know, the obvious answer we get is, you know, we see a lot of speeding tickets, a lot of lane violations, a lot of things like that. But one of the things that people don't really think about is if you've got a cdl, anything that happens in your personal vehicle is going to impact it as well. So we get a lot of drivers who may get something on their, you know, their personal vehicle or their motorcycle and just going ahead and pay it and not recognize the impact it's going to have on their MVR because they have a cdl. All of those things impact you know, what you do. So we defend drivers not only in their commercial vehicles, but in their personal vehicles as well and their motorcycles. I've done bicycles. 

I've handled tickets received on bass boats. I've done two DUIs on riding lawnmowers over the years and represented one person on horseback. And yes, alcohol was involved with that one as well, so. 

Gotcha. Yeah, we forget that some things that we do personally would affect us professionally like that. 

And it's so easy to just paint the ticket and think it goes away until. Until it doesn't and you're looking for a job and. 

Yeah, that's such an interesting point. I didn't think about that. I got a speeding ticket last year and it increased my insurance by a lot. So it is something that is easy to happen. It's easy. We all speed every once in a while and maybe don't mean to, but we need protection against that. 

And Lindsey, I'd like to point out, you know, two people I know represent people on feeding citations. You have my cell phone number. Reach out to me or Marilyn or us. 

We will take care of you. 

We will help you. 

Well, you know what? That is bad thinking on my part. Just like sometimes drivers might not remember that they have you as a service. 

So they got to know Lindsay, you're totally right. I mean, we see that carriers, you know, oftentimes those are conversations that we're having with carriers is drivers get violations and doing the right thing, they think they're doing the right thing, they just send in the money and pay it. Well, that might disqualify them from the job that they have. And so then whenever the company finds out about that, then they're having to terminate a driver possibly. Which is what we see as one of the main reasons that carriers are seeking out our service is so is to be able to keep those drivers in the seat. Because as you said, you know, just like you said, it doesn't make somebody a bad driver because they get a violation. You know, there's, you know, any. It can happen to anyone. 

And so it saves drivers jobs. And carriers want to save drivers. And so that's one of the main reasons we have carriers reaching out to us wanting to offer service to drivers is because of what you just said. Drivers get a violation, they pay it, and then they can't drive for that company anymore. 

Right? 

Yeah. So what's the process if a driver gets a ticket and they have your service? What's the process they go through to get help from you all? 

They'll call into our office and we've got an intake department which will get with them and get all the information about the ticket, where it was, what the violation was for, et cetera. And as I mentioned earlier, we've got a database while they're on the phone, we'll be able to pull up that court, say, hey, great, we've been here X number of times, here's what's going on. Here's what's likely going to happen or what you can expect to happen. Here's the kind of time frame on how long these this will take. We do all that with the driver. They pay the legal fee and we start working the case from that point. You know, one of the things we do is as lawyers is we're able to make sure that the driver doesn't have to appear like 99% of the time. 

Because it's so difficult for a driver. If he gets a ticket in New Mexico, on his court date, he's in Connecticut. 

Right. 

You know, we file entry of appearance, we handle those, you know, and the vast majority of the time the driver doesn't ever have to appear. So it makes their life easier. They don't have to worry about it. And then we just work the way, work our way through the case with it, keep them informed of what's going on. If there's an inspection, we'll file the data queue. As part of what? Part of the legal defense of it as well. 

Any success stories that you'd like to share? What are some things that you can give us as a real life example? 

Oh, well, success stories, I would say over the past 34 years, we've been able to favorably impact the outcome of about 95% of the cases that we handle. Get some type of relief in those cases, whether it's an amendment, a dismissal, a reduction in the fine. But we see lots of things every day. I remember when everybody was complaining about cameras in their cab, forward facing cameras. We had a driver recently in the far right lane driving below the posted speed limit, was where he was supposed to be when he was supposed to be. And a car blows by him two lanes over, he's gonna miss the exit, cuts across at like 90 degrees. The driver does everything he can to avoid. Avoid the accident clips him. It spins out. No police officers are present, but the police are called. 

And of course the people in the four wheeler say, were in the far right lane and this driver rear ended us. So he gets a reckless driving with an accident. He's an independent contractor working for a carrier. They're done with him at this point, but we're able to get with him, get copies of the video, share it with the prosecutor. And these folks had already filed a civil lawsuit against the company too, as you can well imagine. 

I can imagine. 

And make it all go away and make. Got rid of the civil suit, got rid of the charges were dismissed against the driver. It's those type of things where you're just able to go in and take care of the people because that's. You want to take care of people who are doing the right thing. And that driver was doing the right thing and if he didn't have access to an attorney, he probably would have lost his job, you know, wouldn't have been able to, you know, go pay somebody at their, you know, hourly rates to defend him. So were able to step in and keep him employed, keep him rolling and protect his record. 

Absolutely. With the litigious society we live in, you would almost think every single company would want to be signed up for your service because I, it just protects you against small infractions and big ones. I mean, a civil lawsuit that was getting filed against that driver, that's huge. 

Yeah, yeah. And it's, you know, like you said, we're such a litigious society anymore. Everybody looks at a carrier and sees deep pockets, you know, and that isn't always the case. 

We also have, I think, you know, one of the things that I learned whenever I transitioned into the role was, you know, the work that we do on behalf of carriers as well. And so our carrier clients, you know, we represent any of, you know, we take care of any of their tickets at no additional charge to them. And so we save those carriers that we save, you know, in the six figures annually on overweight tickets that we're able to get relief. 

Wow. 

So, you know, that's money straight to the bottom line for a carrier, you know, whenever we're able to help them with any of those violations. 

And the entire program doesn't cost the carrier a penny. 

Right. 

So it's just netted benefit we give to the provide to the carrier. 

Right. So it's like kind of that monthly opt in service that I as a driver can opt into as long as my employer is signed on with you. 

All right. Directly. 

Yep. 

If you're an individual driver. 

Okay, so that was going to be my question. So owner operators. 

Yep. 

Yep. They can sign up through the Driver Pulse app or they can call us and we can, you know, we can sign them up or they can sign up on our website as well. 

Yeah. 

Okay. So to me, this is a no brainer. 

Yeah. The hundred and fifty dollars a year. So essentially, if you're a commercial driver, you know, to say I'm protecting my license for $150 a year. When, when we think about, I mean, that's most tickets. I don't even know, Brad. You would know, but I don't even know if there's a violation that's under $150. Right. So it's like it's one violation and it's, you know, it's paid for it. 

So well and you know, statistically drivers are going to average over, you know, I think it's 1.3 citations a year. 

Okay. 

You know, a lot of them don't get any. The great drivers don't get any. And you have something to do that works out as the average. So if you just think statistically, If I pay $150 a year and I get one ticket and it costs me $100 for a lawyer to defend me on that again, no limitations on hours, no additional legal fees, I'm in for $250 for defense to protect my job. And you're not going to be able to go hire a lawyer anywhere else, even if you go to that town where the ticket is for less than that. 

Right. 

And, you know, as I mentioned earlier, you know, this is all we do is defend CDL drivers and motor carriers and traffic matters. So we understand the interrelation between the states. And that's another thing that a lot of local lawyers don't get or a lot of referral agencies may not have. You know, the lawyer they send you to may not get it. We understand how a ticket in New Jersey, if you get a ticket New Jersey and you're licensed in Georgia, we're going to understand how that plays out. New Jersey has, I believe it's called a careless driving, which isn't a big violation. So sometimes the lawyers in New Jersey will plead you to that. We'll say, all right, well, you know, reduce it to careless driving. Well, if you're licensed in Georgia doesn't have that on their statutes. 

So all they see is careless driving and they change it to reckless driving. 

Oh. 

So the interrelation between the states, how things are coded, knowing how states are going to read and interpret things that are entered, you can't really put a price on that. You've got to be able to know that if just your local lawyer that you may, you know, sign on with in New Jersey may not understand that, may not care, and may think he's getting you a good deal. And in really at reality, he's shooting you in the foot. And, you know, we get calls every week trying to reopen things that people haven't understood or have not been what they thought was going to happen from other services and other lawyers. 

Yeah, that's so interesting to me. It sounds a lot like with what we do within the education system, because every state's different and you have to navigate every state and district differently. But when you start to know the state and what their kind of their framework is, then you are able to really navigate it so much easier than going in blind. So that is actually really interesting to me. But it makes sense. It makes sense that each court system kind of has their. Their framework. 

Yep. Each state gets to make their own laws. 

Yep, that's right. Just like in education. What kind of trends are you seeing? Any legal trends that you're seeing with for drivers that. That they need to pay more attention to? 

Well, you know, I can tell you that March and April are the busiest months of the year from what we've seen historically in citations. Yeah. Everything slows down kind of over the holidays. It starts to pick up about, you know, February is busy, but March is generally, we see more citations written in the month of March and April. So just keep in mind, I mean, that's 34 years of experience every month. Those have been our busiest months. So there seems to be, for whatever reason, more enforcement out. Maybe everybody likes the good weather. People are going on spring break. There's going to be more enforcement present in the spring than what we see generally other times of the year. 

How interesting. I never knew that. 

Yep. 

Well, and I was surprised when you told me, Marilyn, that you all cover companies with weight violations. Overweight. 

Violations overweight. 

Like, so what other kind of things like that I. I wouldn't even think about that you all help companies and drivers with. 

So I think, you know, Brad talks about, you know, we are. We're a law firm and not a legal referral service. And I think, you know, one of the things we help companies with and what we really want to help you, a company, manage their risk. We want to be, you know, involved and work with your safety department, you know, and help you track the violations. I think one of the things that I didn't appreciate, and I think a lot of drivers don't know until they get a violation is how much of a back and forth that can be. 

And like, just because you get a ticket in April and it says it needs to be paid in May, or you need to go to court in May, that May might turn into June, and then June might turn into September, and then that might turn into next May, and all of that back and forth with the court to just even be able to appear, you know, to be able to handle your ticket. And so we take care of all of that back and forth for the driver. And that is a really a big load off of them. And so I think I didn't appreciate that. Right. If you do get a ticket and you want to defend it's not just as easy as showing up at court and defending it. 

You know, there is weeks and days and months possibly of back and forth before you can even get there. And so I think that is something for companies to understand and also drivers is like there's a process and as Brad said, you know, we understand the ins and outs of that and those little intricacies and how to handle it to get the best results and that those are the types of benefits that I think you can't put a price on those types of things because it really is just experience in the process and handling it and knowing the nuanced way, you know, to deal with these different things in all of these counties across the country. 

Yeah, that's so interesting too because for me, if I was a driver and I was dealing with that's stressful. 

Oh yeah, it is. It's very stressful. And so being able to just pick up the phone and call us or send an email to us and say, hey, can you give me an update on this when you get a chance, you know, versus trying to run down, you know, a court system, you know, drivers, we need drivers to be, have their mind on the road. Right. And that's to keep us safe and to keep, you know, the motoring public safe. And so we want to take that off of their mind. 

Yeah, peace of mind, right? 

100%. 

Yeah. So 100%. So somebody new that's getting into the industry as a driver, professional driver, in fact, Mid America Truck show, we met several that were 21, just got their CDL, super excited to go and start working. We had one young man who brought his parents with him and they were really excited. He's so excited about getting into the industry. What would you suggest? Like how would you say if you were talking to that 21 year old driver, how should he protect himself and what should he know legally before getting on the road? 

Well, you know, I would suggest that as a new drivers statistically get more tickets than experienced drivers. I mean, that's just the way it happens. I would stress to him how important it is to keep a clean mvr, because that's going to have, that's going to be how you're going to be able to stay employable. If you ever want to change jobs, A clean MVR goes a million miles to getting you that job. So like I said, for driver's legal plan, that's one of the things I would suggest doing. It's you know, minimum monthly payment, 13.50amonth if they sign up with us directly. And you've got the, you know, nationwide CDL legal defense firm on retainer to defend you in those situations and protect your MVR so that going forward you can have better opportunities. 

Nobody wants to hire a driver with, you know, two tickets on their record. 

That's true. Yeah, that's absolutely true. And, and fast food has gone up in price so much. 13.50 a month is one meal out. 

Right? 

Right. 

Like one McDonald's one value meal. Yeah. 

Seriously. So that is like such a value. And it's something like, oh, this is a no brainer, peace of mind. Such a value to add as and just 1350amonth. So are there any common mistakes that are misunderstandings new drivers make when come when it comes to the legal side of trucking? 

Oh, a lot of times you'll see drivers thinking that if I pay something, it's not going to show up on my mvr. I just got this, it's not a big deal. I'm just going to go ahead and pay this and out of sight, out of mind. That sounds great. Until, you know, company runs your annual MVR and lo and behold, everything's there. In some states, you know, like in New Mexico, if you sign the citation roadside, you're pleading guilty. At that point, you know, drivers need to understand that doing that or sending money into the court is a guilty plea. And you don't want to do that. I mean, you know, you, this is what you do for a living. You know, fight to protect your license. And I mean, don't get me wrong, sometimes citations are warranted. 

I can tell you a lot of stories about those, but I won't, But a lot of time they're not, you know, it's. Something happened that wasn't really the driver and you need to defend yourself and protect yourself. So the misconception of if I just pay this, you know, it'll go away. Nobody will ever know. My boss will never know. The government will never know. That's not the way the world works anymore. 

That's right. I mean that is absolutely right. So, Marilyn, I know, I think last week or recently you were at the naftis, the national association of Publicly Funded Truck Driving Schools Annual conference. How are you educating educators about what you all do and how to protect new drivers coming into the industry? 

So, you know, that's one of the reasons why we're involved with associations like NAFTA, and CBTA will be at CVTA next month in May is to do exactly that. So educate schools that this type of resource is out there, you know, because a lot of schools don't know that these types of programs exist. And a lot of drivers now go to truck driving school and then they go into their own business, they become, you know, independent operators. And we're working with carry, you know, carriers that are hiring a lot of students also to educate them about our services. And it's about getting drivers on our plan and getting them that protection is early on in their career and just letting them know that we're there. 

So even if you don't become a member, you know, educating to those types of things, like if you get a violation, don't just pay it, you know, call a phone, a friend first and let's see, you know, what we can do to help you with that so that you don't admit guilt and automatically get points on your MVR and on your csa. And so we're. It all starts in truck driving school. And so we're, you know, working with those folks. They're great to, you know, to spread that message and kind of start getting it out into the industry that these services is that we exist and we're here to help you from day one or even if you don't have a cdl. Right. 

So our, you know, if it's something that you get in your personal vehicle, if you're in CDL school, you know, you're gonna get a cdl. You know, we can still help them with that violation. And so I think that's important for entry level drivers, which I grew up in that world, so that's really my heart is, you know, they need, bless their hearts, you know, they need to know all the things that can happen to them and what's available to them as the sooner the better, you know. And so that's why we're working with schools and those educators to get that message out there. 

Absolutely. And we need to make sure we're getting it to our school programs so that young people coming into the industry start early. Right? 

Start early. That's right. 

And speaking of young people into the industry and your involvement in associations, tell me about your vision in sponsoring. I think you sponsor several programs and associations for young people. Tell me about that. 

I'll let Marilyn handle that one. 

Yeah. So the next. We're, you know, proud members of the Next Generation Trucking Association. We are in awe, I think, constantly of the amazing work you guys are doing, bringing educational programs to high schools and technical colleges across the country to train the next generation of drivers and technicians, which is so desperately needed. But also desperately needed is the next generation of driver recruiters and driver managers and accountants and, you know, lawyers and all, you know, all sales people and all of us, you know, that support those drivers on the road. And so drivers Legal plan is a proud sponsor of the lead program, which is ATA's Young Leadership or Next generation leadership program. And then we're also sponsors of the TCA's Elevate program, which is their young leadership program. 

And so that is an investment from us into the investment of those folks to say, you know, this is really important that these associations be. Get to young people and different people in organizations and that. I mean, your passion for the industry, Lindsey, you know, my passion for the industry, Brad's passion for the industry, that came from the involvement in the industry. And so these programs really reach into those organizations that are members and ask them to say, put your best person forward. Who's the next leader in your company, and to get people hooked on trucking, you know, the earlier on in their career the better, because then we don't need them to leave us, just like we don't need drivers to leave the industry and technicians to leave the industry. We also don't need these smart young. 

The smart young talent that is working for trucking companies and associate members to leave the industry. So we're really proud to work with TCA and ATA to offer those programs and our partner at 10 street, you know, to and to work with those young people that are going through the programs. It's been really fun. 

We've really enjoyed it, and it's so interesting. I moderated a panel at TCA for the young leaders, and just their perspective and their viewpoints on things are so much different than, you know, maybe my generations. It's well thought out. It's holistic. It's. It's a different focus, and it's. It's good. It's all heading in the right direction. It makes me feel confident the more I interact with the young leaders on how this industry is going to prosper. Been nothing but impressed with the young folks that you see. 

It gives you hope for the future, doesn't it? 

It does. It really does. 

We're out there meeting young people and students, and that is one thing that everybody always says is, I have hope for the future now when I meet these young people and they're sharp, they just need exposure to our industry. For them to say, hey, this is something I want to do with my future because it is such a great industry, it has such a big purpose in our country and we couldn't survive without it. So I thank you for all you do to invest in the next generation because you all do a lot. 

Well, thank you. 

So just kind of closing. If a driver or a carrier wants to learn more about driver legal plan, where should they go? How do they get signed up? 

They can go to our website, driverslegalplan.com they can reach out to Brad or I on LinkedIn. Or our first name@driverslegalplan.com is our email. They can call us. I'll let Brad recite the number. I think everybody in trucking has my cell phone number, so call me directly if you have it. We will get you signed up if you want to get signed up. 

Yeah, you can reach out to us through all of those places. I mean, you know our website, driver's legal plan. Again, the most creative name ever for the website. But all the information is available there. You can call our office, 405-948-6576 and talk to people here. You can reach out to us on LinkedIn. As I mentioned earlier, I'm old and that's the only social media I'm on. Anything beyond that, reach out to Maryland on whatever social platform you like. Yeah, we're accessible. When you see us at a show, come up and talk to us. You know, I'm the short guy running around, but I'm happy to talk to everybody. 

And you're all, you both are super fun to be with, so definitely come. 

Talk to you mcs. 

That's right, exactly. So we'll, and we'll put your contact information in the show notes. Any final thoughts or advice you'd like to leave with the next generation of trucking professionals? 

My advice is find yourself a couple of good mentors. No matter what role you're in, find yourself a couple mentors because people have a lot of knowledge in this industry and they want to help you. So let them. 

And I agree. I'm just going to kind of pile onto what Marilyn said. Mentoring is great. All the young people, they have the most amazing ideas and the way that they're looking at today's problems are so unique and I appreciate what they do. But keep in mind that if you're at a carrier, there's going to be a lot of institutional knowledge. You know, the guy who's been driving for 50 years that's tarp to load in Chicago in February is going to be able to tell you some things that you may not get from a book or an app or a technology. So make sure you keep in contact with that institutional knowledge and absorb it and learn it and as you progress and come up with all your new ideas. 

I think that's great, Brad, because I, I've been reading that a lot of baby boomers need to share their institutional knowledge with the Gen Zers because we're going to be losing them to retirement and we don't want to lose that knowledge because they have so much. And I just love what you guys have said about mentorship and, and also Gen Z. They do have a lot to share. They've got a lot of great ideas and we want to make sure that we're learning from them as well as they can learn from us. Right? 

Exactly. 

Well, thank you so much for being on the show today. We're going to put your contact information in the show notes. Marilyn and Brad, they're everywhere. So at a conference, there's a good chance that they'll be there. But. And you can also follow them on LinkedIn. And thank you for being on the show today. 

Thanks, Lindsay.